Can-Am Headquarters ...Aurora Wheelers ATV Forum > Tips, Toys, Tires, Ads, Misc > ATV Tech Tips > Most dangerous? Uphill or down? |
| Moderated by: zac41, Voodoo, Revicm, QUADAHOLIC, OSOKILL, MtnOuty, fmj40 |
|
|||||||||||||||
| Most dangerous? Uphill or down? - ATV Tech Tips - Tips, Toys, Tires, Ads, Misc - Can-Am Headquarters ...Aurora Wheelers ATV Forum | ||||||||||||||||
| Author | Post | |||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ||||||||||||||||
|
turboman Member 
|
Since I probably have less experience riding than most of you guys, I was wondering something.... Are accidents more likely on a steep downhill or on a steep climb? Reading the forum I've gotten the opinion that downhills cause more "flip overs" than uphills. Has anyone had a flip over backwards on a steep uphill? I've had the front end bounce up and down and feel light where it seems like it's coming over but it never did. Someone mentioned that the Owners manual says you can climb steeper bluffs than you can descend. Does that make sense? I would think going downhill as long as you stay off the brakes and steer straight ahead you can literally go downhill at "free falling" speed.
____________________ 800 MaxXT,25"XTR's.RAM GPS,Twin-Air, Ricochet,ELKA fronts,EBC pads,Kevlar cable,PIAA bulbs,grip-reinf's,Leeds hitch,Precision damper,1" Rr spacers,Iridium plugs,Rene'wgts,OEM w/shield,OURY grips,WestCo coated muffler,Saeng mirrors,flares,AGM bat |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
trailrider
|
I haven't had the chance to take any hills worth talking about on the Outy 800 yet but in the past (on different machines) I personally have felt more uncomfortable going uphill than down. Though I have never had one problem going up I have locked up the rear brakes in very loose conditions going down hill almost hitting trees. I can't wait to try on the Outy with the EBS. One of these videos on this link to LaMigraTx site has a guy flipping while going uphill, Helicopter Hill. http://www.jacobsatvvideos.com/individual_pages/Greg/Greg_vid_page.html
____________________ Semper Fi 2006 Outty 800 2004 KFX 400 son's 1999 KLX 300 2003 Volusia 800 2005 Titan |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Offcamber Member 
|
We had one guy in our club flip over backwards going up a hill but there were many factors that contributed to it....first he was off the trail and went up a steeper rock face. Two his quad was to small for him and he was a big guy so he sat way back on the machine. The result was a broken back because the quad fell on him. Lucky he his up and around and has been out riding the same quad again. I feel more comfortable going up rather than down either way if the hill is steep enough there is a high pucker factor  The EBS system on the Outty 800 is great almost to good.....several times going down hill I had to give it throttle to keep it moving......and coming down hill on an ice patch locked up the wheels...again a little throttle fixed that....but other than those few times it is awsome....I hardley use the breaks when riding.
____________________ Bombardier Outlander 800XT Yellow! TEAM OUTTY #80 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
OSOKILL Admin Assist/ Enforcer 
|
I have flipped over backwards goin up on my Grizz and my buddy endo'd goin down a steep incline on his Cat 650 twin. in the owners hand book that comes with the Outty it says it can go up steeper hills than it can go down. Ive gone down a fairly steep hill with no problem infact I let the EBS take over most of the braking after a while and let it pick up a little speed it seemed too easy
____________________ Team Outty 800 Member #24 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Oguy Member 
|
I suspect the reason the machine can climb hills steeper than it can decend is due to two reasons. The center of gravity, at least on my Max, seems forward of the center point between the wheels. The second, and probably the bigger factor, is that when going uphill, we can lean far forward. I sometimes lean forward and hold onto the front of my XT bumper with my left hand while going up something insane. Going downhill, I've sometimes wished my arms would temporarily extend an additional 18" so that I could lean way back and change the center of gravity more.
____________________ 800 XT Max |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Ductape Member
|
There are too many variables for a simple answer. In general uphill you can do more to shift body weight to the front as previously posted. And if you reach your traction limit you can just stop with the aid of gravity. Going downhill if you lose traction gravity is your enemy. Short climbs up or down you can sometimes use momentum to do grades that could not be sustained for longer climbs. E.g. take a run at a short steep uphill and then just roll up with inertia pushing you against the hill. And you can gas it going downhill to transfer weight to the rear-but that only works in the short run! DT
____________________ BRP800, AC 650 V2, Polaris Ranger 700XP |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Big T Member
|
Ive flip my 800 3 times know 2 going uphill and 1 going down, all just ridding to hard. the good thing is just a little cracked plastic. the hand gaurds didn't even brake.
____________________ Green Outy 800 XT 2006 Ricochet skid plates Dobeck HMF muffler Ceramic coated exhaust |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Huck BB62 Member
|
My background is that I used to enduro a lot. After riding our new 800 Max XT I'd have to say that the extra wheelbase makes a HUGE difference in climbing. Watch the ATVTV episode on the Polaris X2 and you'll hear him go on and on about the same thing and that guy's ridden everything and anything. On the exact same quad, the Polaris 500 without the length, the rear end skittered and slid down the loose descents where the X2 did just fine. Longer is better on the steep stuff. With both my wife and I on our Max, the length and the 4wheel drive EBS makes steep technical trails seem tame, REALLY tame. On the group rides, I was sitting and DRIVING down the steep steep stuff and the guy on the new King Quad and especially the guy on the new Polaris were fully extended way back on thier seats, sliding and fighting the hill going down. On one badly rutted climb, they looked all out of shape and had the front end in the air several times, on the Max, I just puttered up the hill. On one of the obstacles, a big rock on one half of the trail that really puckered them up, they stopped to watch the nonevent of the Bomb walking over it. I'm not knocking those other quads, I'm just making an observance.
|
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
kraked
|
One thing i found out about the outy xt is that the front end sticks out more than my griz did. At the bottom of a steep hill it dug in(at bumper bolts/fairlead area) and flipped me once
|
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Circa2000 Member 
|
Personally I feel much more comfortable going downhill then uphill. Actually, The only hills I play on is loose sand, so maybe on the hard packed stuff I would feel more comfortable going uphill (more traction).
____________________ Current: 2007 Outty 650XT - Loaded Before: 2005 Honda 450 Foreman **MY 2007 OUTTY 650XT PICS** |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
turboman Member
|
Always wondered about BACKING up an extremely steep bluff that I couldn't go around. There woudn't be any chance of the nose lifting and going over backwards because most of the weight is on the rear wheels. Especially with a passenger on a Max. Only problem would be seeing where you were going. You'd have to pick the best path and then keep it going straight. ...just food for thought. 
____________________ 800 MaxXT,25"XTR's.RAM GPS,Twin-Air, Ricochet,ELKA fronts,EBC pads,Kevlar cable,PIAA bulbs,grip-reinf's,Leeds hitch,Precision damper,1" Rr spacers,Iridium plugs,Rene'wgts,OEM w/shield,OURY grips,WestCo coated muffler,Saeng mirrors,flares,AGM bat |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
Oguy Member
|
Sorry, but I don't buy the idea that there is no chance the nose will lift sending me backward "because most of the wait is on the rear wheels." When all the weight is on the rear wheels, that means zero weight is on the front. Backing down a too steep hill is a chilling event for me. When I get myself on a hill that I've misjudged, I start looking for something to winch off of to assure a non-eventful decent. I've used that method several times. Also, when backing down a particularly steep hill, I start wishing for the ability to apply only the front brake. When the front wheels are ready to lift and your braking primarily with the rear, it just gives it that much more incentive to go over. I don't want to have to find out if I'm fast enough to get out of the way if my quad attempts to give me a full body slam.
____________________ 800 XT Max |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Swampthing 
|
The extra length on the Max helps for sure. There is one thing I found for certain that has not been mentioned. Going down steep hills, do it in 4x4 HI. In low, the tires tend to lock up and slide.
____________________ 1. Don't suffer of "I shouldda" get the good one. 2. Never date a woman who could take ya in a fight. 3. Don't underestimate the value of a few more inches... 800 MAX. |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
LaMigraTx Contributing Editor 
|
We run very, very steep hills all the time. I feel both climbing and going down are equally as bad. Going down you can lose control or have your wheel get caught and turn you side ways, and its all over. Going up you can get hung up on something that pulls you side ways or the worse case causes you too stop, and roll backward. The last thing you want on a climb is too lose your forward motion and roll backward, at that point its over. Like Trail Rider pointed out watch that video, the guy basically ran out of power rolled back and fliped. The Outty 800 does make downhill descents alot more safe and controlable. I would much rather blip the throttle on a heavy EBS system like the Outty, than trying to manage a 800+ monster like the Polaris soley through the brakes and throttle. In my mind its more difficult to control a machine descending than climbing a steep hill. The only thing I have to worry about climbing a steep hill is do I have enough power (don't have to worry about that with the 800), will I get hung up on something (that will kill you), just make sure you pick the best line.
____________________ 02 Grizzly 660 02 Rubicon 500 06 Outlander 800EFIXT 06 King Quad 700 07 Grizz 700EFI 07 SP 500EFI X2 Delx jacobsatvmagazine jacobsatvadventures 1stOutty800EFI TXOwnerJuly05 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
LaMigraTx Contributing Editor
|
turboman wrote:Always wondered about BACKING up an extremely steep bluff that I couldn't go around. There woudn't be any chance of the nose lifting and going over backwards because most of the weight is on the rear wheels. Especially with a passenger on a Max. Backing up is not advised the gearing is too high in reverse (you won't have enough power), and you can't control your machine should you need to turn. Don't try it
____________________ 02 Grizzly 660 02 Rubicon 500 06 Outlander 800EFIXT 06 King Quad 700 07 Grizz 700EFI 07 SP 500EFI X2 Delx jacobsatvmagazine jacobsatvadventures 1stOutty800EFI TXOwnerJuly05 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
OSOKILL Admin Assist/ Enforcer
|
not counting how easy it is to reverse wheelie the 800
____________________ Team Outty 800 Member #24 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
LaMigraTx Contributing Editor
|
OSOKILL wrote: not counting how easy it is to reverse wheelie the 800Yeah, that too, lol. However, Turboman if you wheelie up backwards on the steepest hill, be sure to video it, and you will be featured on my front page for life, and I am sure Outlandish will do it too. Anyone that says crap about the 800, I ll just say watch this 
____________________ 02 Grizzly 660 02 Rubicon 500 06 Outlander 800EFIXT 06 King Quad 700 07 Grizz 700EFI 07 SP 500EFI X2 Delx jacobsatvmagazine jacobsatvadventures 1stOutty800EFI TXOwnerJuly05 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
kenora Member
|
I just joined the forum and came across this thread, by coincidence I just posted the following on Nyroc about how to get down a hill you can't climb. I was stranded 90% up a hill there was no way I could finish climbing and backing down was out of the question...I had tried a few feet and its skittered and slid too much and I was sure it was going to end up sideways and flipping over so I did this (credit for the manouver belongs to someone else; though I don't know his/her name to give credit)...fwiw Here is something I learned and it is a life saver on STEEEEEEP hills...If you aren't able to get all the way up a hill then shift into reverse for the way down even if you can't complete the J-turn thats alluded to in the manual (though I think they have the details a bit mixed up). I used it once on a huge gravel/rock hill that I couldn't climb because it was too loose, not the Kings fault, it was pilot error I didn't carry enough speed up the hill to get to the top. I thought that I could crawl up with 4X4 low/locked but when there ain't enough traction it just ain't gonna happen no matter what machine you are on.... but back to the J-turn... with the ATV stopped facing up the hill set the rear parking brake, while holding the front brake as well, rotate the steering hard RIGHT. Shift to reverse then get OFF the ATV and stand on the right side of the ATV with your right hand on the throttle. When you are ready to do the following as one continuous maneuver... release the parking brake, and front brake, give the ATV enough gas to rotate around you as you stand on the hill, it will go through a small arc and end up on the other side of you facing straight down hill. Stop the ATV with the front brake. Remount, shift to low range (forward), ensure you are still in 4x4, lock the front diff and let it idle down the hill, unless its nearly vertical try to stay off the brakes. lean back! The point is that the engine/transmission give great braking when in the appropriate gear for the direction you are going, (Low range for forward and Reverse for backing up). I didn't make this maneuver up I read it somewhere (can't recall where I'm sorry to say) and have put it to the "Holy crap how do I get outta this mess" test. Because of the very loose composition of the hill I couldn't back down safely because it wandered all over, the only hope of getting it back without damage was the J-turn.
|
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
OSOKILL Admin Assist/ Enforcer
|
Im having a hard time picturing how to make the outty do this in my mind... this must be something that the bikes with the dual levers can do, but would be tuff for the single brake lever bikes.
____________________ Team Outty 800 Member #24 |
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
|
automator Member 
|
Going up the hills backwards is a rush but not reccomended - unless you broke that damn reverse garter belt they put on the Outlanders. As for flippping, physics wins every time. The center of balance of any object is the tipping point. The more weight up the hill the higher your tipping point so the steeper you can go. Extream show and tell on this, push a bowling ball with a pencil up a slanted piece for wood and you can push it all the way up, now, put the pencil on the top end of the bowling ball and push the ball up, it up, it will always flip in 2-3 inches. No top weight = low flipping point. That is why the lighter guys, or those that can lean way forward go up easier, less ass wheight, and also why the longer the quad (physics again - lift a bowling ball with your hand, now try and lift that same bowling ball on the end of a 1 foot rod) the heavier the front, the easier it is. As for which is less dangerous ... I think 700 lbs of tumbling Quad hurts the same going uphill or downhill 
____________________ No Mud too deep, no rock to tall - bring it on and laugh hard when I fall Nemo is my name ... "cause I always get in trouble, get stuck, need fins to stay on course and need to be rescued" - and my ATV's name is Nautilus
|
|||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
| Current time is 12:14 am | |
| Can-Am Headquarters ...Aurora Wheelers ATV Forum > Tips, Toys, Tires, Ads, Misc > ATV Tech Tips > Most dangerous? Uphill or down? | |
